Building on the Chris Mannix report that “the Warriors are already regretting signing Maggette to a five-year, $50 million deal last offseason,” Art Thompson III shares some impressions from his years covering the Clips:
Clippers center Chris Kaman said the half-court offense often would get stagnant because Maggette would simply try to barge through defenders to get to the rim…
My sources told me that fomer [sic] Clipper forward Elton Brand was so determined not to have a personal friendship ruined with Maggette (the two have been close since they attended Duke together), that Brand did not want to play another year with Maggette, having decided that seven years with the Clippers was enough.
Regarding the Warriors’ reported regret over bringing Corey in, McFruity on Hoops gets it right: Corey Maggette is precisely the same player today that he was in Los Angeles — an efficient, albeit single-dimensional, scorer. The notion that anyone should be surprised, alarmed, outraged, or disappointed that Corey Maggette won’t hit a cutter, pass out on a drive, or generally do anything in the halfcourt that makes his teammates better, is absurd.
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“Corey Maggette is precisely the same player today that he was in Los Angeles — an efficient, albeit single-dimensional, scorer. The notion that anyone should be surprised, alarmed, outraged, or disappointed that Corey Maggette won’t hit a cutter, pass out on a drive, or generally do anything in the halfcourt that makes his teammates better, is absurd.”
Indeed.
Though I’d quibble that Corey can make his teammates better in the halfcourt (in the right system) in two ways:
1) Getting his team into the penalty earlier, which brings about extra FT’s for his teammates.
2) That he demands coverage means his man can’t leave him to help, letting his teammates play a more advantageous 4 on 4.
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More generally, efficient one-dimensional players really need the right system around them to succeed.
Corey is a hatchet, not a Swiss Army knife, and the Warriors suffer from a lack of versatile tools at the moment.
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Posted on December 5th, 2008 at 7:31 am
Corey is built physically to be an all-star caliber player, the likes of Lebron and Kobe. What makes him the complete opposite of those great players is his inept understanding of the team game.
Corey is very one-dimensional. The fact that he attacks the basket and forces defenses to commit does not necessarily equate to a positive contribution to the overall team goal. I honestly believe that Corey’s game eliminates a team’s opportunity to gain momentum, and therefore significantly lowers their chances of winning every night they play.
Keep in mind that the only year the Clippers made it into the playoffs (during his tenure) was the year Corey was injured and out of the lineup for over half the season.
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Posted on December 5th, 2008 at 8:39 am
To leap off of Petey’s comment, what is this right system?
MDSr and Nellie run completely opposite systems and the results are about the same. In fact, given increased freedom, Maggette’s FG% has dropped somewhat this year. MDSr’s inside out game marginally helped Maggette by putting him in those positions to magnify his talents. Wing isos and getting Corey moving after a post entry pass so he only needed one dribble to get to the hoop.
Players are who they are. Coaches don’t matter. Systems don’t matter.
But here is the remaining question: When Corey’s athleticism starts to fail, and it may during this very contract, will he be able to remake himself ala Brent Barry, or will he fall off a cliff as he is increasingly forced to rely on that streaky jumper?
I’m grateful that is no longer a concern for the Clippers.
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Posted on December 5th, 2008 at 9:14 am
Kevin – your post is exactly right. Corey is what he is. A self-made player who does a few things really well.
And to say that coaches don’t matter is one of the funniest comments I’ve heard in a long time. Of course, this opinion comes from a guy, John R, who has consistently told us all that Q Ross is far better than Corey and should have started for the Clippers over him and that any player can be replaced on any team with any other player like widgets. And he’ll tell us that anyone who disagrees with him is an idiot.
As Corey has said, Corey’s grateful that he no longer has to deal with MDSr.
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Posted on December 5th, 2008 at 9:40 am
“But here is the remaining question: When Corey’s athleticism starts to fail, and it may during this very contract, will he be able to remake himself ala Brent Barry, or will he fall off a cliff as he is increasingly forced to rely on that streaky jumper?”
I think we all know that Corey will highly likely be overpaid in the last year or two of his current contract.
“Players are who they are. Coaches don’t matter. Systems don’t matter.”
Mildly disagree.
Corey does what Corey does at a semi-elite level. It’s beyond his pay grade to find a way to employ his talents in a winning formula. Just because it’ll likely never happen in his career doesn’t mean someone couldn’t have found a way to do it. There are worse problems than finding a way to deal with a guy who can score the basketball in volume at high efficiency.
Or, put another way, Rajon Rondo is who Rajon Rondo is, but in the system he’s playing in, he’s better than he really is.
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Jax Reply:
December 5th, 2008 at 10:07 am
Yep – look at how Shawn Marion’s numbers improved under the D’Antoni / Nash system in Phx.
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John R. Reply:
December 5th, 2008 at 10:22 am
Except, inconvienently, that’s not actually true.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mariosh01.html
In fact, he’s a good case study in your teammates making you worse since his best year may have been the season Amare missed.
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Jax Reply:
December 5th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
When did D’Antoni come into the picture? Cursory review appears that Marion’s numbers did get better over the last few years. And that they are worse now.
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Posted on December 5th, 2008 at 9:51 am
Corey was the shit when he was the same size in HIGH SCHOOL playing against midget white boys in the chicago suburbs. He went after me in the Illinois state dunk contest in 97′ and he was a monster!
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Posted on December 5th, 2008 at 10:14 am
No clipper fan should find this as new info. We all seen corey for years. He is what he is.
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Posted on December 5th, 2008 at 10:37 am
Corey is who he is – and Baron is who he is.
I believed Mr.Davis could – and would – change somewhat and adapt from years of Nellieball to a less frantic, more D oriented style but he is not interested in applying himself.
If Baron can’t be Baron, warts and all, i.e. a self-centered, freewheeling volume shot jacker, he simply is not happy and starts to sulk. It’s sad – he could be an all-star but he’s too emotionally immature and not mentally tough enough. That’s what really sets him apart from elite players more than anything else.
The good thing is – Baron is still a tradeable asset and he can be moved. And he needs to be moved if things don’t improve drastically in another month or two. We’re not gonna go through 5 years of the current nonsense.
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Posted on December 5th, 2008 at 11:08 am
I can’t believe we’re seriously talking about trading Baron Davis at this point. The guy’s been playing injured, he’s a point guard who needs to know the ins-and-outs of every player on his team and didn’t participate in preseason play… meaning he’s basically playing a game of streetball these days with a new set of 5 from his last game. Sure the guy is streaky and a chucker but HE JUST GOT HERE and nothing else is going right for this team anyway. He’s also learning a new, and i would venture to say overly designed/structured system with a group of other BRAND NEW players. Trade Baron? Come on!
Now, kaman… that i’d entertain.
This is a massive rebuilding year. If we win 20 and come out with a great early pick and maybe, MAYBE trade kaman… i’m fine and hopefully next year this team finds its groove… if not… that’s when i’d freak out.
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Posted on December 5th, 2008 at 11:51 am
I really like Maggette but I hate Mike Dunleavy because he’s a hateful guy and he’s too selfish on his players by calling too much of his own plays and running too many isolations isos cant help you win in this league today. Todays NBA game is simply outmatched with iso it’s more like a up and down court fast paced run n gun style of offense. Sterling and Roeser did the right thing by standing on Maggette’s side see what happens now if we’re without a wing player that’s why we’re last in scoring in the NBA.
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Posted on December 5th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
he really needs to be critizied of what he has been doing to this team because they are struggling this year. Dunleavy had no intentions of signing Maggette back and hated Faulk that’s no good in winning an NBA Championship.
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Stian Reply:
December 5th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Even if Dunleavy and Maggette got along famously, there was no point in bringing him back with Thornton on the rise and the kind of money Corey was gonna command on the FA market – not to mention that hole at PG which is where the money needed to be spent.
Falk is a compete and utter douchebag – he and Dunleavy actually have – or had – a pretty good personal relationship. We didn’t lose Brand because Dunleavy hates Falk – Falk has a massive ego and was pissed that Elton basically did his own deal with Dunleavy w/o involving Falk. When Falk found out he got pissed and decided to pull a powertrip. And Elton went along with it like the cowardly bitch that he is.
Thank God Brand is gone – I’d HATE to be on the hook for 80 million in the state that Brand is in. I’ll take Zach Randolph over that washed up schmuck any day and twice on Sunday.
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prostat Reply:
April 26th, 2009 at 6:25 am
Thank God Brand is gone – I’d HATE to be on the hook for 80 million in the state that Brand is in. I’ll take Zach Randolph over that washed up schmuck any day and twice on Sunday. prostat kanseri, prostat büyümesi, kronik prostat iltihabına bitkisel çözüm sunan Healthy Prostat Formula Türkiye satış sitesi.
thanks
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Posted on December 5th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Who do you think is better Brand or Randolph?
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Posted on December 5th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
It’s getting too funny maybe someday Dunleavy might take Sterlings spot for Clipper owner.
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Posted on December 5th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Waughtang said, “This is a massive rebuilding year. If we win 20 and come out with a great early pick…”
I cant take another year of talking about NEXT YEAR. We’ve been talking about next year every year except 2006. It’s really a horrible, horrible situation the Clippers find themselves in. I’m so tired of talking about what the potential of this guy is… how well a rookie is playing… or how Clippers.com put it: having a “streak of competitiveness”.
The games are still watchable, which is the only bright spot… even though the pain is starting to numb from the heartbreakers, it still hurts some.
…and someone please tell Clipper Darryl to stop chanting MVP when Baron Davis comes to the free throw line. I think Devin Harris is a far better MVP candidate at this point. It’s sad to say that BAron isn’t even sniffing the discussion… just like Maggette will never sniff an all-star game at 25ppg.
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Posted on December 5th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
But the key to success to the Clippers in future years to come is responsibility of the LA Clippers team ownership to operate in NBA Drafts and Free Agency. Key to their success relies upon GM, Head Coach, Owner, President, and Vice President to handle situations like what we got now. If someone does something wrong someone has to be held upon accountable for it and I think that Donald T Sterling needs a wake up call because if he hasn’t that is why Mike Dunleavy hasn’t been fired yet because of a disjointed ball club at the moment. Right now since I haven’t blamed Dunleavy for this it is all on Donald T. Sterling I put the blame on him because he controls the franchise not Dunleavy but the problem is that Sterling and Andy Roeser allows Dunleavy to do too much for this organization and they need to keep it under control.
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Posted on December 5th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
warriors season ticket holder here. maggette is damn awful, especially on D, but most GS fans knew this coming into the season. that Nellie continues to give him minutes like he’s some rock of the franchise is what’s so surprising and confusing. he’s easily the worst crunch-time player i’ve ever seen in person.
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Stian Reply:
December 5th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Your owner made a huge mistake.
Instead of re-signing Baron, who was prefect for your style of play, for what would’ve been a reasonable deal you drive him into the arms of the Clippers with a low ball offer.
Then you go fully stupid and offer Brand 105 million, which is so ridiculously off the scale it’s absurd, and then decide to give Maggette 50 million (both moves are clearly part attempted payback for losing Baron to the Clippers, which is not being smart about doing business).
Why would you need Maggette when you already have Jackson, Azubuike, and Ellis – THREE better players than Maggette! – to cover the 2 and 3?!
Now you’re stuck with Maggette and sorely miss Baron, especially in light of Monta’s injury.
And we are stuck with a disgruntled, moody, sulking Baron because the boy isn’t getting it exactly his way.
At least we can move Baron if we decide he’s a waste of time but you guys are pretty much with Maggette.
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Posted on December 5th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
Leave Maggette alone. Please. We’ve got handful of problems right here in LA.
Heaven’s sake don’t drag GSW into our ditch.
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Posted on December 5th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
I used to think Maggette was going to be an All Star. Year after year. Waiting for that game to round out beyond just strong yet wild forays to the hoop. Never happened. Never will. Good riddance at that money.
Unfortunately Thornton will never be any better a scorer, and will be just as poor an all around player.
Oh yeah, Dunleavey is the worst coach in the league, inflexible, arrogant, and overbearing. Unfortunately, the one year the players actually bought into the system, we almost knocked the Suns out of the playoffs in the 2nd round. He unfortunately picks the wrong personality players who will never conform to him (Baron Davis, Tim Thomas, Ricky Davis, et.al.) unlike Jerry Sloan in Utah.
And yet I watch every game…
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Posted on December 5th, 2008 at 7:08 pm
Maggs is Maggs and regardless of whats written and whats said he played hard and long for the Clips, albeit in his own style. Take a least 6 wins off last seasons tally if he wasn’t on court.
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Posted on December 6th, 2008 at 1:56 am
Maggette was one of the most energetic and productive Clippers had for at least last four years. He never quitted on a game. He never had to be motivated by anyone. But GSW did not really need Maggette. Their whole team plays only on offensive end and very little D. Corey is not a cure for that.
I think he would be helpful if he remained with us. Whenever Clippers went into a scoring drought, he usually solved that problem by being aggressive. Selfish or not, somebody has to be in charge at the end of the close game. Complete Unselfishness can be harmful as it is with Clippers. When Baron passed the ball to Camby against Denver for 3 pointer? Unselfish yes, but was it the best decision? He should have been selfish at that point and take it to the rim.
And Thornton… Wasn’t he making 3s last year? Or Dunleavy does not ask him to practice that anymore?
I am thankful for that LAC-NYK trade.
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Posted on December 7th, 2008 at 5:55 am
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