This was nothing more than a glorified rec league game. This isn’t said to insult the talented players who suit up for both the Clippers and Timberwolves, or the coaching staffs of either team. Surely there were many displays of athleticism shown on the court tonight that you will never see at your local gym. Still, like many a rec league team, the Clippers coasted throughout the game because they had already subconsciously decided they were far superior in talent, and as such were incapable of losing. Misguided confidence in tow, the Clippers sleep-walked through the first stages of the game, looking like a team that was struggling to find the motivation to do the little things against an inferior opponent. Sometimes, like in both New Orleans games, this mindset and lack of effort can create a hole too deep to crawl out of. Tonight, the Clippers got bailed out by a few superb individual performances, and the over-pressing play of an anxious and inexperienced Timberwolves team with the game on the line.
Tonight was likely the last game Eric Gordon will sit out with his groin injury, and his return couldn’t come any sooner. The Clippers offense has been heavily dependent on three main sources since Gordon has been sidelined: Chris Kaman, Al Thornton, and Baron Davis. Tonight Baron and Kaman combine to go an awful 7-30 from the field, leaving the bulk of the scoring load on Thornton and some surprise contributors in Camby and Telfair.
The previously mentioned Al Thornton went off for 31 points on 11-16 shooting, and did so by shooting all but two of his field goal attempts inside 17 feet. It’s amazing what a few adjustments in Al’s game has done for his efficiency, and it’s also semi-ironic that this current version of Al brings two things the team desperately requires; a scorer who attacks the rim (9-9 from the Free Throw line) and an offensive rebounder (6 offensive boards). With Gordon coming back, there may be concerns about Al’s decrease in touches, but fret not; Al has seemingly learned that he can create his own opportunities without the ball. Just watch him when the ball enters to Kaman in the post – he dives hard to the hoop most every time, and in doing so places himself in great position to receive a pass or to put back a miss. It’s been said before, but it’s worth repeating: Dunleavy and the rest of the staff deserve some credit for the work they’ve done with Al this year. He’s transforming his game under their watch.
Marcus Camby once again proved valuable tonight by wreaking havoc all over the floor and putting up one of the more impressive stat lines you’ll see all year: 12 points, 18 rebounds (6 offensive), 4 assists, 3 steals and 1 block. Camby is widely praised around the league for his workman like demeanor, and tonight he truly was one of the few Clippers who decided to show up for all 48 minutes. Camby’s incredible motor and ability to score off tip ins and put backs make him a perfect fit for any club. If the Clippers choose to move him around the trade deadline, there will not be a shortage of suitors for his services. He’s an ideal veteran presence, and tonight served as a nice reminder on how important Camby can be to this team. Take away a few of his plays in the first three quarters, and maybe the Clippers are looking at too big of a deficit to overcome.
If Baron Davis were a quarterback, he’d undoubtedly be Donovan McNabb. Both guys share quite a bit in common. Both are considered incredibly streaky with their play. Both are susceptible to games where they consistently miss their targets and turnover the ball. Both are injury prone and are constantly scrutinized (usually unjustly) by their collective fan bases who push hard to trade them or bench them. The reality is McNabb and Baron are both above average at their respective positions, but it’s hard to shake the feeling that they routinely play beneath their immense talent levels. Tonight’s performance by Baron is akin to one of those late November games from McNabb where he rockets the ball at his receivers feet all game, but finally connects for the game winning touchdown. Baron was horrible tonight in every measurable category, but his game clinching layup partially salvaged his stinker of a game. Partially.
Sebastian Telfair was the guy who stepped in for a struggling Baron, and he provided great results. Bassy played the role of scorer and knocked down perimeter jumpers all night in route to a 17 point performance and a game high plus/minus of +9. Telfair has proven that he’s more than capable of running the Clippers offense, particularly in late clock situations. Telfair likely won’t shoot this well every night, but when he shows he has his jumper going he’ll be hard for Dunleavy to sit back down. We saw a glimpse of the Baron-Telfair backcourt combo, but that’s likely going to be a rare occurrence because it doesn’t appear to be a viable strategy offensively or defensively against most teams.
It took all game, but eventually the Clippers defensive rotations became respectable, and the previously easy entries to Al Jefferson in the post became much more difficult for the Timberwolves perimeter players to make. The strong post denial play of Craig Smith held Al Jefferson to zero shot attempts for the first 8 minutes of the final period. Jefferson recorded zero points and three turnovers in that time frame, which allowed the Clippers to build their largest lead of the night (8 points), and finally gain control of the contest for good.
While the Clippers may be talented, they are not nearly good enough to make a habit out of this type of performance through three quarters, particularly on the defensive end. This line of thinking isn’t a disconnect between fans and franchise; Dunleavy’s post game mood, despite the win, could probably be best described as “somber”. Most every Clipper fan wants the team to come out and methodically destroy lesser opponents by thirty points, but this can’t, and won’t, happen with any sort of regularity. NBA players are human (most of them, anyway) and are prone to the same mental laziness that resulted in your rec league team only beating that out of shape, yet surprisingly plucky team of accountants by three. Maybe you shouldn’t be happy about the win, and you definitely shouldn’t be proud of it, but at the end of the day, a win is a win.
68 Responses
I think a Baron/Bassy backcourt should have been used more often during EJ’s absence.
Stian Reply:
November 24th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
You want to see the PG with virtually THE worst FG% in the entire NBA play SHOOTING guard alongside Bassy?
Do you hate the Clippers that much?
Posted on November 24th, 2009 at 4:06 am
Don’t think Mcnabb is the right comparing partnet for B. Diddy. I’d go Brett Favre pre-Vikings, he can win you a game and sure enough he can lose it for you.
Posted on November 24th, 2009 at 6:04 am
I’m way beyond that this was an ugly win thing. I’ll take any win. Doesn’t matter how bad it looks. They got the W and now it’s on to the next one.
Posted on November 24th, 2009 at 7:06 am
2 things I noticed: Bassy was out to prove something against Sessions. He was playing with ‘ill show this jack(sessions) and this team (clips) that this guy wasn’t worth signing with me on the lineup.Bassy was and1 playin against ramon. 2nd thing,Lucas looks like he might get on some of the players nerves. Other than that, I agree that at this point, a wins a win
Posted on November 24th, 2009 at 7:18 am
Great recap. Great win. Ugly game. Really promising signs from Telfair and Thornton (I’ve clearly underestimated him).
Kaman has looked really unstable since that OKC win, not just in terms of bad shooting and turnovers, but in terms of rebounding, especially on the defensive end—he’s averaging 6.6 total boards (and only 17.4 points) over the last five games. I understand that his lower scoring is somewhat directly tied to Gordon’s absence, but why the drop in rebounds? It looks like he’s just being constantly out-hustled—too many uncommitted reaches and taps, too few two-hand grabs and hard-earned position wins. That absolutely must change on this mini road trip, as Camby, great as he can be, won’t nab 18 every night.
Posted on November 24th, 2009 at 7:54 am
As long as Baron is our PG we’ll be mercurial and likely underacheive. As many have said, the Clippers are a mirror of Baron Davis and that isn’t a good thing.
As for the idea of a backcourt consisting of Telfair and Baron, Baron is the last guy I want playing shooting guard with his lofty 39% shooting and 29% from three. Mabye for few minutes at the end if we have to hold the ball, we can go with three guards with Gordon, but otherwise, no thank you.
Stian Reply:
November 24th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
Here is all you need to know about Baron.
BD’s stats for 2008/2009, the year he has since admitted that “I sucked. What else do you want me to say?”:
MPG: 34:36
FG%: 37.0
3-pt%: 30.2
FT%: 75.7
RPG: 3.7
APG: 7.7
PPG: 14.9
Here are BD’s stats for 2009/2010, the year he promised would be “my best year ever”:
MPG: 32:30
FG%: 38.0
3-pt%: 29.2
FT%: 81.2
RPG: 3.7
APG: 7.3
PPG: 14.9
They are virtually THE freakin’ SAME!
The ONLY reason why the Clippers have a better record than last year is because we have a better supporting cast/bench. The main reason why we still stink to a large degree and lose games we have no business of losing is Baron Davis.
I hope this useless, arrogant, unmotivated twat gets traded – and if it’s the last thing Dunleavy does for the Clippers.
SamMays Reply:
November 24th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
Second that!
Posted on November 24th, 2009 at 7:58 am
“With Gordon coming back, there may be concerns about Al’s decrease in touches” -D.J.
Yeah I was thinking about this last night. Al never starts off the game as the teams #1 or 2 option. But with the poor play of BD and Kaman, he was able to take the helm. With Gordon back, and Blake not far behind, can he maintain this type of play? I know 30+ points is going to be rare with those guys back but he could very well go from 3rd option to the 5th.
I love the Thornton we’ve seen these last 6 games and hope he can maintain it when he’s back playing with the better offensive players in EJ and Blake. I know he doesn’t want to be the 6th man.
gsr Reply:
November 24th, 2009 at 8:31 am
If Thornton can be himself on the court and doesn’t wait for anyone to tell him about his role, then he can unleash his talent ferocious tenacity.
He’s the kind of player(like Kobe, Iverson, Ginobili) who needs to reach deep inside his own psych in order to succeed. I think he’s doing it now. And it’ll be fun watching him play his game.
Whole new scenarios will emerge if Thornton becomes #1 offensive weapon for this team. If he’s hard to contain with single coverage and he coninues to attack the basket, then no team will be able to pay much attention to Kaman, Gordon, Griffin and Telfair. It’s not just Thornton who wants to attack. Hey…Griffin, Gordon and Telfair are hungry too.
It’s time. Just trade Baron to GSW for Corey Maggette and a rookie PG. Both team will benefit from this.
Z-Bo's Revenge Reply:
November 24th, 2009 at 4:53 pm
Trading for Corey Maggette hardly does any favors for Al’s game, let alone the Clippers in general.
Fritz Reply:
November 24th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
Again with Magg! Why don’t we bring back Bobby Simmons at $10 mil per while we are at it, if you want to waste money. Thornton is a better and much cheaper version of Magg.
Posted on November 24th, 2009 at 8:05 am
Baron and McNabb both rock the shaggy beard. Good call.
Posted on November 24th, 2009 at 8:10 am
The question is why does a team that’s 6-9 even have that “we’re superior” mentality?
Beard The Curse Reply:
November 24th, 2009 at 10:07 am
Seriously. And it’s been on full display this year.
Posted on November 24th, 2009 at 9:06 am
please trade baron..sebastian has been underrated his whole nba career..cuz he from a urban city hes already prejudged so teams have short patients with him…he prob a top ten “pure” point guard in the league… 5’10 out of high school… he not even supposed to be in the league…according to what we know …he plays basketball for the love of the game
Posted on November 24th, 2009 at 9:18 am
A win is a win, But i will say i went to the Denver game and what a diffrence in energy. Dont understand how a team can go from so up to so down. The energy was not there. If they would have played like that against the Nuggets they would have lost by 20 to 30 pionts.This team needs to focus every game, We are in no position to look past any team. I think it starts with the coaching, You can not let your players loose focus.
SamMays Reply:
November 24th, 2009 at 10:31 am
If you’re a coach, how do you keep an NBA player focused. Yell at him? Give him a firey pep talk before every game? Dunleavy did the right thing last night in benching Baron.
I can blame Dunleavy for a lot of things, but player’s motivation comes from within… That’s why a guy like Gordon can play hard every game of a losing season while a player like Baron mails it in. It’s why Blake works his ass off every off-season, wanting to be the best, while a player like Baron lets himself get fat and out of shape in the off-season, and only decides to work when it looks like he’ll be humiliated it he doesn’t…
The key is getting the right kind of players on your team.
Chris. Reply:
November 25th, 2009 at 5:22 am
I agree partially. Everything about Baron vs. Gordon & Griffin is spot on but not your take on Dunleavy. A good coach has that ability to motivate and inspire and he obviously can’t do it. When a coach has lost his team, like he did FElton a few years back and Baron since day 1, it is hard to get them back. Yes the key is to get the right kind of players and that’s probably why we love Blake more because we know he will give it his all compared to Baron’s waste of missed FG’s, but the coach does have to take some credibility.
Posted on November 24th, 2009 at 10:09 am
Bd is a disgrace & it’s blasphemous to compare him to the hardworking underrated McNabb. The problem with Bd is not only that he can’t shoot,can’t defend,& hogs the ball all the time so the team can’t get into it’s offense . He also has no ability to make the right decisions at the right time- the most important need for a successful point guard & for a successful team. He is the anti Sam Cassell.
Posted on November 24th, 2009 at 11:11 am
Baron Davis FTW! I loved the McNabb analogy. I want to take it one step further though, and say that Bassy is like Jeff Garcia when the Eagles had him as their back-up QB.
D.J. Foster Reply:
November 24th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
That’s funny you say that – I was starting to compare Bassy to Garcia but figured I was probably taking the whole thing a little bit too far.
Posted on November 24th, 2009 at 11:48 am
Mcnabb went to a SUPERBOWL
what has baron done
BAD Analogy
D.J. Foster Reply:
November 24th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
He was a crucial part of one of the biggest upsets in the history of the NBA.
VH Reply:
November 24th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
i bet baron has won more playoff games than mcnabb…
Stian Reply:
November 24th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
What a stupid comparison to make! Football doesn’t have 5 and 7-game series to determine who advances to the next round.
Baron has been in the league over a decade already and he has won Didd(l)y squat in light of his reputation as one of the supposedly best PGs in the game.
Posted on November 24th, 2009 at 11:55 am
Jeez, the guy had one atrocious game, and we’re crying to trade him. Yes, he stunk it up in every which way possible. Yes, he didn’t show up to the game with much energy. But like Kevin said, players are human and are prone to these kind of letdowns. Furthermore, BD is still an above average PG in this league. Any one of you would have a hard time naming 10 PGs ahead of him (that’s because there aren’t 10 PGs better than him). Some of you fans need to stop drinkin’ the haterade.
Stian Reply:
November 24th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
“Any one of you would have a hard time naming 10 PGs ahead of him (that’s because there aren’t 10 PGs better than him).”
LOL – you asked for it:
Nash
Paul
DWilliams
Billups
Parker
Arenas
Rose
Evans
Jennings
Ellis
Brooks
Harris
Nelson
Rondo
Westbrook
Terry
Kidd
Mo Williams
Dre Miller
Bibby
Calderon
That’s 20. And I’m not even mentioning guys like Flynn (who abused Baron last night), Lawson, Flynn, Chalmers, and Curry whom I’d gladly l take over Davis any day.
Patrick Reply:
November 24th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
I think RL meant “There aren’t 10 PGs PAID better than him.”
JM Reply:
November 24th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
I think RL meant there aren’t 10 PGs ahead of Baron in terms of kilos.
D.J. Foster Reply:
November 24th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
I could make the argument that I’d rather have Baron over Monta Ellis, Jason Terry, Mo Williams, Andre Miller, Mike Bibby, Russell Westbrook and Tyreke Evans especially if we’re talking about playing all those guys primarily at point guard.
Gordon for President Reply:
November 24th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
Exactly, D.J. That list is ridiculous. It’s just an attempt to rip Baron for last year, and whenever he “reverts” this year. He’s not going to be a head-turner, I’m more than happy with the 2009-10 version of BD that keeps his shot selection in check.
Yes, I’m as dissapointed as everyone else is what he’s done with respect to ther expectations we heaped upon him, but a large part of BD’s failure is the system in which BD. It’s against everything that makes him successful.
1-10 shooting won’t happen every night, but I was impressed with the shot he did make.
Stian Reply:
November 24th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
I can’t wait for Dunleavy to be gone as coach just so all you professional Baron apologists finally get a heavy dose of the truth. Baron’s biggest problem is not Dunleavy or Dunleavy’s system – it’s Baron.
Stian Reply:
November 24th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
You would not swap a 30-yr old washed up Davis for a rookie stud like Evans?! I don’t believe it.
D.J. Foster Reply:
November 24th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
I’d like to see a little more of Evans – that’s all I’m saying. It’s a little early to be placing him ahead of a proven guy like Baron, especially since a lot of people aren’t sold that he can exclusively handle point guard duties.
I wouldn’t reject a hypothetical Baron for Evans trade, no. But I don’t think that necessarily makes him a better point guard as of right now. Does that make sense?
Gordon for President Reply:
November 24th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
How else can you explain the dramatic and sudden drop-off from the Baron of 2007-2008 to the Baron of 2008-2009? He played all 82 games that year, and his scoring was way up. You don’t have a fall-off that dramatic in the span of a couple of months.
Stian Reply:
November 24th, 2009 at 5:22 pm
You cannot compare Golden State to the Clippers.
GS’s high scoring, throw any crap you want at the basket, no defense system is bound to make any playmakin’ PG look good, especially when it comes to PPG and APG, because there many more possessions when you play uptempo ball.
But, most teams, incl. the Clippers, don’t play like that – it’s not about scoring 120 points every night, and there is more emphasis on D (or at least there was w/ the Brand-era teams).
Baron’s PPG average was gonna come down quite a bit away from the Dubs – that’s not the issue. The main issue has been and continues to be Baron taking bad low% shots at the worst possible time (instead of involving his team mates more). That’s what’s hurt this team the most.
I can think of 3 or 4 games this season where Baron’s bad chucks turned into momentum changers and we lost the game. We’d have lost last night, too, if it wasn’t for Bassy saving the day when Dunleavy had finally had enough of Baron’s ‘Ya know, I really can’t be bothered tonight’ routine and pulled him.
RL Reply:
November 24th, 2009 at 5:53 pm
Stian,
In response to your list:
Nash – better than BD.
Paul – better than BD.
DWilliams – better than BD.
Billups – better than BD, not by much (check this year’s stats to compare for yourself).
Parker – nope, BD better this year, though not by much (see stats).
Arenas – better than BD, though you have to strongly consider how many shots he needs to take for that 22.5 point average.
Rose – nope, but will be in the future.
Evans – nope, but he does have ridiculous upside.
Jennings – same as Evans.
Ellis – nope. Monta shoots at a higher percentage, and scores considerably more, but takes way more shots, higher turnovers, and dishes out less assists.
Brooks – nope. He needs more shots to get his points, but he does shoot at a higher percentage. Less assists, steals, and higher turnovers.
Harris – better than BD.
Nelson – nope. Shoots at a higher percentage, less points, less steals, and less assists. Also injury prone.
Rondo – better than BD, although it is arguable since he is surrounded by three future HOFers.
Westbrook – a toss up in my book, but I wouldn’t mind having him instead of BD.
Terry – not even a real PG, cannot run a team – hence why the Mavs traded for JKidd.
Kidd – nope. less points, lower FG%, less steals, higher assists, and higher TO.
Mo Williams – nope. not a real PG, and cannot run a team, though a very good 3point threat. only doing well since LBJ is playing point forward.
Dre Miller – seriously?…
Bibby – SERIOUSLY??????
Calderon – a toss up in my book, though he is worse than BD in defense.. cause you know, he’s defense is like Peja’s D: nonexistent.
A quick recap:
Nash, Deron, CP3, Billups, Arenas, Harris, Rondo are all better than BD.
Calderon, and Westbrook are toss ups.
Counting all those names above lead to 9 PGs better than Baron. Close, but nope, you didn’t name 10 PGs better than Baron. ^_^v
RL Reply:
November 24th, 2009 at 6:01 pm
Also, for those of you who play fantasy basketball: BD is the number 3 PG behind only Nash and CP3… yet further evidence that BD is doing a-okay..
lol,… okay okay.. fantasy basketball rankings shouldn’t count.. but still.
pez Reply:
November 24th, 2009 at 7:52 pm
I agree with most of this list.
What happened in the last week that everyone stopped blaming mdsr and started blaming baron? Guy is working hard…granted he needs to take after Al and stop shooting outside of 5 feet (imho), but other than that he’s doing well.
Screw it, I’m going back to being angry at Kaman.
SamMays Reply:
November 24th, 2009 at 9:44 pm
The only one I’ll agree with you on is Jason Terry, since he seldom plays PG… I’ll take the other 19 over Baron in a trade immediately…. And, in a trade, given the cap space we’d save by getting a lesser salary, I would take some more over Baron; Sessions, Curry and Flynn… All of these are based on potential and the fact that they cost less than Baron.
Think ahead two years when Baron is still here and still making in excess of 13-million… How bad/fat is he going to be by then?
RL Reply:
November 24th, 2009 at 10:38 pm
Sessions, Curry and Flynn all have potential, but I wouldn’t trade BD for these guys. I would, however, trade BD for Rondo, Westbrook, and Rose. Those three guys have realized a big chunk of their potential, but can still improve their game considerably.
Also, why are we thinking of two years down the road? This Clipper team should be able to contend for a playoff spot and be a real threat once in the playoffs. On paper, the squad is one of the deepest teams in the NBA – yes that’s right.. one of the DEEPEST teams. Don’t believe me? Compare our roster 1-15 with other NBA teams, and you’d be hard pressed to find a team with as much talent as the Clips. The real mystery is how the Clips cannot translate their potential into results. Hence, why I feel that Dunleavy needs to go. The coach has failed to properly utilize the team he himself built.
However, your point about BD’s fat contract towards the end of his contract makes sense. That’s why I stated earlier that I’d take Rondo, Rose, and Westbrook in a trade for BD. Those guys have proved they can run a team (with Westbrook least proven).
Chris. Reply:
November 25th, 2009 at 5:32 am
RL,
The problem isn’t Baron had “one atrocious game.” Last season was terrible compared to the man himself and this season his stats (that you used to compare other point guards) are the same as his terrible season. My problem with Baron is his decision making and chucking up shots when other players could have better chances if he’d try to create something with the full 24 second shot clock and not just the final 6 seconds that he often holds the ball until. The Dunleavy haterade is still in full effect, it’s just becoming clear he’s not going anywhere so the next person/problem to fix is the leader of the team and that’s Baron. If he can’t show energy and motivation to his troops, then how are they going to get excited?
RL Reply:
November 25th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
Chris,
Tis true that Baron has a tendency to chuck up bad shots, especially PUJITs. But he has put that in check for the most part this season. As far as Baron holding the ball, you and I don’t know what the players are seeing on the court – so to criticize him for (perhaps) overdribbling is not fair. Maybe Baron wanted to iso to drive on the opposing PG and the other players couldn’t move out in time? Or maybe the play that was called did not develop due to good D, or his teammates not executing? You have to consider these things when Baron is left with the ball at the end of the shot clock. I’m sure some of those bad possesions are to be blamed on him for overdribbling… but to blame ALL of it on him is unjust. Besides, if anyone can overdribble – it should be your best ball handler, which is of course BD.
Posted on November 24th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
Trade him for Monte Ellis
Posted on November 24th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
Als playing great….give it about a week before he has a season ending shoulder injury lol
And SamMays dont make generalizations that you can’t back up. Are you an NBA player or do you know NBA players who tell you they dont listen to their coach? Geese
SamMays Reply:
November 24th, 2009 at 8:43 pm
Billy, I’m not sure what you’re referring to. If it’s my post about players needing to be self-motivated, I would think that would be obvious.
Posted on November 24th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
oohh, in you face!!
Posted on November 24th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
A win is a win, no matter how ugly it looks.
Posted on November 24th, 2009 at 4:06 pm
lmao most of you people are idiots…
Kaman doesn’t do too well this game everone hates him
BD has a horrible game everyone wants to trade em and when he does great you all want to suck em up and swallow
Chris. Reply:
November 25th, 2009 at 5:34 am
BD has a terrible season plus he’s working on this season of his game not getting better. It’s our displeasure of what he has turned out to be as a Clipper versus the least of our expectations.
Posted on November 24th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
This is exactly why I love the Clippers. They’re such a unique team with all the misconceptions placed on them by non-clipper fans.
I still love BD because he’s human. He has his ups and downs. Even though his ups aren’t that great this season, he’s still a key player I believe for this team.
If I wanted to watch a team win consistently, I’d go over to the other side of this city and root for kobe and the lakers.
Clippers is always going to be the underdogs, and I don’t think we can blame any of the players, sterling, or dunleavy. I think it’s all the factors combined. And I think the best thing we can do as fans, is to pack out the staples as much as we can and show support. It’s really all about the fans. Musicians vibe off the audiences, and I definitely think it’s no different in the sports arena.
Posted on November 24th, 2009 at 5:21 pm
with Baron,its not his game its his attitude…..
Posted on November 24th, 2009 at 5:58 pm
Gee if Baron reads all the garbage thrown at him hear (some warranted. some not), it would be no surprise he goes out with a possible CGAF to the Clippers
Stian Reply:
November 24th, 2009 at 8:47 pm
Baron has never GAF from day one. That’s the whole problem. Clippers paid all-star money for a supposed franchise player and all they got is a chicken laying eggs for 80 games and counting.
I hope Baron reads the boards and knows how much the fans think he sucks. It’s all we got.
Last year was pathetic and inexcusable – to get a repeat of virtually the same movie after how Baron opened his big mouth and spewed superlatives in the summer about how great he was gonna be is unforgivable.
It’s like, “bitch, don’t you have an ounce of professional pride?! You get paid 14 mio. bucks and you do us like THIS?! AGAIN?!”
RL Reply:
November 24th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
LOL stian, you really don’t like BD do you? I understand your frustration with him, because I feel the same too at times. But the bottom line is, Baron is playing better this year – though still not at the level he should be at. My thinking is he should be around 18 ppgs, 9 apg, 2+ spg, and less than 2.5 tpg with a higher efficiency and energy level game in game out. Maybe I’m a fool, but I do think he will eventually gravitate toward those numbers.
If what you say about him is true, who in the NBA would trade for him? If what I say about him is true, why would the Clips want to trade him for cheap due to his contract? Either way, we’re stuck with Baron. And yes he is overpaid, but he is not as bad as many of you portray him to be. So why not try to have a more optimistic view of the BD situation.
I remember last year many of the fans were begging the Clips to unload Chris Kaman. Aren’t we all glad the Clips didn’t listen?
Stian Reply:
November 24th, 2009 at 11:19 pm
“If what you say about him is true, who in the NBA would trade for him?”
Well, here is where being the Bad News Clippers can actually be an advantage for us. Because we are historically bad, there are probably a couple of GMs that are dumb enough to think that Baron sucking has nothing to do with Baron and everything with the team he is on. But, you’re right – it won’t be easy to trade BD – about 20 teams have better PGs or rookies/sophs that will be better very soon. We’ll probably have to take a bad contract back in some way in order to move him.
“If what I say about him is true, why would the Clips want to trade him for cheap due to his contract?”
There is no such thing as trading Baron ‘for cheap’ unless the Rockets would be so kind as to send us TMac’s expiring monster contract for Baron and a combo of throw-ins. Even if Baron were to play alright – we should still move him. Paying 13, 14 mio. for a 5 mio. dollar (7mio. on a good night) PG for 4 more years is a bad deal any way you slice it. We need a PG who can grow with Griffin, Gordon, Jordan, et al, not some egotistical 30-yr old over-the-hill primadonna with worse mood swings than a chick on the rag.
RL Reply:
November 24th, 2009 at 11:40 pm
What I meant by trading Baron for cheap is by practically giving him away to another team – because truth be told, that is one of the only ways Baron will get traded. League perception on BD is fairly low right now, so trying to unload his contract is difficult. I do think perception of BD will improve as the season progresses – so maybe if the Clips are really that desperate to get rid of Baron, we might be able to swing for a decent trade. Imho, a trade for TMac’s expiring contract with some throw ins is a horrible idea. Although more cap space is always good, we already have a very good cap space situation at the end of this season.
You do bring up a valid point in trying to clear up cap space and bringing a proven PG still young enough to run with Griffin and Gordon. If Baron is to be traded, I do hope the Clips bring in a proven PG, not a prospect. However, why are we focusing on two, three, four years down the road, when this current squad should be able to play NOW? Kaman is beginning to finally grasp his full potential, Camby got a good year or two left, AT is starting to fit in with the team, Gordon is already a formidable 2, and Griffin is just the icing on the cake. So why do you want to trade BD for a potential stud? The team already has enough studs to make some real noise.
Stian Reply:
November 25th, 2009 at 1:02 am
You can never have enough studs as long as the egos aren’t gettin’ in the way which they’re not with Griffin, Gordon and the other young(er) guys we have. Arguably, the most important position to have a stud at is PG which is our weakness right now (and has been for ages safe for the Sam era) in addition to the shaky SF situation (I’d love to see Al T solidify and play the way he has lately). Whoever we eventually get to replace Baron just has be a smart, solid guy – not a self-absorbed chucker with a hero complex. There are rookies and sophs right now that play smarter and with more maturity than Baron. Age is only a number.
Dumping Baron for TMac wouldn’t be done to create more capspace – it would truly be a move to get rid of a bad long-term contract of an ill-fitting player. We can easily get that type of PG production from a guy that costs 1/3 or half of his salary. Most importantly, we wouldn’t be wasting 3 years of Griffin and Gordon’s career w/ Baron as our #1 PG which can only lead to……. NOTHING. I’ve seen enough of Baron these last 80 games to know that it’s never gonna happen with him here. Time to cut it off and move on. ASAP.
RL Reply:
November 25th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
How about we agree to disagree and let the season play out. And hey, if what you say is true and the Clips continue their losing ways due to Baron (.400 clip, and Baron playing like last year in terms of effort and energy), you can call me a fool at the end of the season. But the same goes the other way around. Deal?
Posted on November 24th, 2009 at 6:42 pm
Stian,
Reading your posts makes me think that you have a hidden agenda against Baron. Did Baron screw your Mom or something? Lay off the haterade. We have bigger problems with this team. Notably the bald headed guy that calls himself our head coach.
Stian Reply:
November 25th, 2009 at 1:09 am
My mom passed away – Baron really wasn’t her type at all. Leave my family out of this! The bald headed guy that calls himself our head coach is not as big a problem as that bearded goober that calls himself our point guard. If that wasn’t obvious to you last night, you must be oblivious to the truth.
Posted on November 24th, 2009 at 11:03 pm
clipped12 that is the best thing ive ever heard from any1 on this blog haha
yes i get mad at BD but he is more at a steady pace than Telfair.. Telfair plays like he has something to prove but when thats all set and done and he becomes “average” there is going to be Sabby haters out there..
Posted on November 24th, 2009 at 11:18 pm
I want Dunleavy gone like most of you. I wouldn’t mind seeing Baron traded like some of you. Both will and I guess should get a chance to prove themselves when the team is healthy because they prepared to play this season with Griffin & Gordon. While I don’t forgive either the coach or the captain for this terrible start to the season losing to teams we shouldn’t have during this so-called easy part of the schedule, they will get their chance to prove themselves worthy of this criticism or not. I hope they prove us wrong but I don’t think Dunleavy has a chance in hell and my doubt in Baron is on red alert right now.
Posted on November 25th, 2009 at 5:42 am
The greatest point guards werent scorers.
Stockton and Kidd never averaged over 20 points a game.
Career Averages:
Baron – 16.9 ppg, 7.3 assists per game
Kidd – 13.8 ppg, 9.2 assists per game
Stockton – 13.1 ppg, 10.5 assists per game
What Baron has that the other doesnt have, is a big fat body that can post smaller guards and work mismatches. Baron also can score, hes not a “pure” point. The reason teams like the Clippers wanted him was for his offensive threat potential and ability to still dish nearly 8 assists a game.
But his career stats show hes in the same conversation as some of the greatest floor generals of our time. Baron’s really a hybrid point, hes a PG/SG and not a true point and we wanted him because of this. Thats why we spent 10M+ for this combination of skills instead of trolling for a pure point at MLE. Thats why Dunleavy was courting Beno Udrih in NY last summer before Baron became available.
D.J. Foster Reply:
November 25th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
“Courting Beno Udrih” would be a fine name for a fantasy basketball team.
Posted on November 25th, 2009 at 7:26 am
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