Through The Wire

15 Feb 2010

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From Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo!Sports:

“The Clippers have made Al Thornton available, sources said, and are trying to package guard Sebastian Telfair in a deal with him or center Marcus Camby. Several teams have inquired about DeAndre Jordan, but the Clippers have no plans to move him.”

We had some nice discussion going in our trade bullets roundup, but let’s pose the question a little differently this time. As it stands, the Clippers won’t be able to make a max offer this Summer. They’ll almost definitely need to ditch the contracts of Sebastian Telfair and Al Thornton to have enough money available. If the Clippers can rid themselves of those contracts and take back no salary next year, do you still pull the trigger on the deal if DeAndre Jordan has to be included?

Basically, how many assets are you willing to part with to attain what’s essentially a lottery ticket this Summer?

UPDATE: From the Twitter of Adrian Wojnarowski:

Blazers offering Steve Blake, Travis Outlaw and likely cash to Clippers for Marcus Camby, league source tells Y! Sports.

Clips trying to attach Telfair to deals with Camby, but doubt Port takes him back. Perhaps $2-3 million needed to inspire Clips on package.

acd

give it ALL up…put all your egss in one basket… it’s a good strategy in the NBA.

The NBA’s winning teams all have STARS. You can have assets up the wazzooo but if you dont have a star, you’re not going to win or attract other stars.

DeAndre is a nice project, but I dont want him learning on MY time….which is what has happened over the past 2 years. He’ll probably go on and make a nice contribution in 2 more years, but we know he’s no Marcus Camby and he’s no Chris Kaman at this point.

So…dump all those assets if that’s what it takes to get a real star in here. Put it this way….would you trade Thornton, Butler, Sebastion and DJ for Joe Johnson? YES.

Would you do that trade for 7 or 8 other free agents this coming summer? YES.

WE’ve acquired all those assets (expriing deals, draft picks, etc) so that you can put yourself in the best position to get a STAR.

Bye Bye Al Thornton! May you be banished to Golden State hell where no one cares if you take off balance fadeaway jumpers…..
avonhun

No. It’s not like we would be asking someone to take on 60MM over 5 years like some of these other teams. Al and Bassy are good young players and it shouldn’t take additional talent to move them just to drop payroll by a mil. I still believe in DeAndre, he is what, 20 years old? and when he has had significant playing time, his numbers have been pretty good. There are probably only 4 or 5 other centers in the league his size that have the combination of agility and strength that he does.
- acd
  
  It has been 2 years and DeAndre is still horrible. He made his first back to the basket move in his career a few weeks ago… WOW!
  
  Listen…every player in the NBA is a nice player… and they younger ones all have “upside”…. but who cares? You cant fall in love with your own players.
  
  You say “There are probably only 4 or 5 other centers in the league his size that have the combination of agility and strength that he does.”
  
  You can wait forever for potential to develop…. what smart teams do is develop potential in players and then SELL for proven, established stars.
  
  Example: If you subtract Deandre, Al Thornton, and Telfair and add Joe Johnson to this team, Dunleavy would still be coach and the clippers would be battling for a 6 seed. Guaranteed.
  
  Potential is for losers. We want to be winners. Isnt that the goal here? I’m tired of waiting around for players to develop on my emotional dime. Sell , sell , sell!
  - dasdads
    
    you are tripping…. centers are hard to come by in this league.
  - bongstradamus
    
    You cant do much when you are given less than 15 minutes a game since youve entered the league.
    
    DeAndre needs floor time to improve. You can only do so much in practice. Its game situations that really mold players. You cant expect him to flourish when he doesnt get the chance to actually play.
    
    People want him because they know he just needs minutes to really develop, something we havent, but should have been providing him.
    - bongstradamus
      
      And not to mention, in those minutes he does get, he averages 4+ points, 4+ boards, 1.1 blocks and shoots 63% for his career.
      
      Over 48 minutes, those numbers are mind boggling. Its a travesty we havent played him.
      - acd
        
        dont you think those numbers are a bit misleading? All he does is dunk the ball… if you play him against other starting centers, he gets killed. His brain is basketball small… he just doesnt get it. He had his chance last year when Kaman was out… enough with this already.
        
        I agree he will be good one day… but he’s never going to be an all-star. So even though you dont get back an equal “asset”, it’s worth dumping him for the chance to get an All-Star SF.
        
        We all know that Thornton and Rasual are not starting 3′s on a championship team.
      - bongstradamus
        
        Not at all acd, he needs real minutes on a consistent basis. He gets tossed in whenever, sometimes its 6 minutes, sometimes its 30 minutes. Hes getting jerked around in the lineup and doesnt have a chance to really excel in any kind of role.
        
        Those numbers are a testament to how scrappy he is when he does play. Averaging 1.1 blocks a game is really impressive for so little minutes. And 63%, even on dunks, is great for a big man.
Sal

Potential is a 4 letter word in my book… Remember livingston? go for a proven player… Project players are a dime a dozen..
rmb

Marcus Camby gave up on this team 3 weeks ago. Ever since that Memphis Water Leak fiasco atmosphere at Clipperland began to deteriorate Memphis drama was staged deliberately to drown the Clippers just before they were on to something big.

IF we can win 30 games this season with THIS team, we can surely win 45 games with Griffin next season. Trade camby before the deadline. Yes, we need to find takers for Thornton and Telfair. But no need to panic if we can’t.

Surprised at some people who think Clippers can attract a SUPERSTAR. That is not going to happen until Sterling revamps his entire management team. If CHARLES BARKELY becomes the Clippers GM and SAM CASSEL becomes the COACH, no Superstar is going to consider Clippers as their destination.

We are almost there. We can be that 50+ game winning team once Griffin takes over the mantle. He’s a motivating figurehead for the entire team. Let’s work on giving more help to Griffin, Baron & Gordon.

Dunleavy is not going to sink this ship. He’ll stay at GM position until someone of highest caibre comes along once Griffin returns to lineup.

I don’t think Clippers are going thru any serious crisis other than not having a credible coach right now. They decided on KIM HUGHES because for THEM the season is over.

POSITIVE SIGN: This season, the run lasted for 50 games compared to 15 games last season. Next season we’ll do better.
- Q.D.
  
  True about lasting 50 games
http://www.twitter.com/HitFixGregory jgroove

If there is a first round draft pick coming back to the clippers, even if it’s lottery protected I say yes. I’m just not sure who wants three players for that. I don’t see those guys as valuable or this happening. Someone would really have to want Thornton and Jordan to give up cap space.
MannyA

Finally, some Clipper fans that actually want the team to win. I hate when Clipper fans want the team to do certain moves that will make the team marginally better. We need a superstar if we want to compete in this league. I don’t wanna hope this team can one day make the playoffs, I wanna think my team atleast has a chance at a title. We need to do whatever it takes to get some stars on this team.
Nick_C

how about a trade like this? with the clippers getting one of miami’s two first rounders.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yj94mug

I think James Jones has a team option next year, so we’d get our cap space, and chalmers gives us a cheap backup pg.
thealex310

i think we should make a trade for iguodala. maybe camby with ricky or thornton. we still have that 2012 minnesota draft pick we are owed, how ever we can lets get iguodala
Galo

The Clippers need to get Joe Johnson. He would be the perfect fit for a balanced scoring and defensive SF that we desperately need.
- bongstradamus
  
  Why would Joe Johnson leave a team that goes to the playoffs and can offer him more money in order to join the Clippers? Would you?
  - avonhun
    
    This whole JoeJ thing is getting crazy. A) he is a combo guard. he has never played small forward in his career. B) he is a from arkansas. in college he chose to play at the university of arkansas, when he was a free agent he chose to play in atlanta. why would he come to california? C) his team made the jump. they have multiple all-stars and will be a top 3-4 seed in the east.
    
    Stop dreaming. Joe Johnson is not coming.
    - http://www.clipperblog.com D.J. Foster
      
      I’ve long been aboard the Joe Johnson dreamwagon…but those are all fine points.
    - Duck On A Rock
      
      I agree with your point that Joe Johnson is SG and not a SF, although I’m sure he can play the position with his long frame, he is not an ideal SF. Regardless of that, we have a young team and signing a 30-year-old Joe Johnson who will continue to play at this level for only another season or 2 is a bad idea. And when it comes to location, players will play anywhere as long as they get they’re $$$. Lebron has the luxury of choosing location, because everywhere he goes, they will give him the max (and an extra year if he stays in cleveland, but for a guy who makes so much from endorsements, that really doesn’t matter). But for Joe Johnson, I’m sure he will go wherever the money is. Although I don’t think he’s the right fit with age and position issues (aka what we need from him), we can get him if we offered the right amount, there’s a reason why he didn’t accept the hawks contract extension this offseason. He’s hoping to be everyones Plan B, if NY doesn’t get Lebron which I don’t think they will, they will probably end up overpaying for Joe Johnson and we will be lucky the Clippers didn’t. I think we should either target Rudy Gay, or hope we land Wesley Johnson or Aminu in the draft to fill in that SF spot. We need a core group of young guys to grow together (See: The Thunder).
      - Q.D.
        
        I love that Wesley Johnson kid, he’s got a good game
      - http://www.clipperblog.com D.J. Foster
        
        Luckily it’s a nice small forward crop this year. K.A. has his eye on Devin Ebanks, while I’m a huge Greg Monroe fan, even though he’s not a small forward.
        
        But between Turner, Johnson and Aminu, that’s a nice crop. Don’t sleep on Ed Davis either.
        
        I can’t decide whether Damion James is Ryan Gomes or Danny Granger, but he reminds me of one of those guys.
        
        We’ll do a draft post soon – promise.
thealex310

i like iguodala better fit for the clippers than johnson . he maybe doesn’t average as much ppg. 17.1 vs 21.6 but he averages more rpg. 7, better apg. 5.7 and is 4th in the league in steals . what i really like about this fit is that he is more athletic. if we want to be a better running team we need players that love to run the floor.
- MannyA
  
  Plus Iggy is younger, is a top defender and he’s built like a truck, dude is strong.
- SilverClip
  
  Agree, let’s go after Iggy.
  
  Offer the same trade mentioned on ESPN. I’m reluctant to trade DJ for a free agency lottery ticket, but I’m more than happy to let him go now for hard talent.
- James
  
  Iggy is 3 years younger, a better defender and doesn;t need to dominate the ball like Johnson, Joe Johnson and Baron can;t really play together, only downside of Iggy is he cant shoot the 3 or stretch the floor like we need to.
http://www.clipperblog.com D.J. Foster

From TrueHoop:

“For practical purposes, that means they are trying to include Mike James and his expiring $6.47 million contract in a package with Antawn Jamison ($11.6 million) and/or Mike Miller ($9.8 million), and they’d do a lopsided trade that favored the other team if it got them under the tax.”

Mike Miller, anyone? Remember, the Clippers have quite a bit of money in trade exceptions as well.
- andrew
  
  you cant add trade exceptions with players so If the trade exception is worth 3 mil, we can only take back a player with a 3 mil salary.
Brian Tipton

This may be ridiculous, but here is an idea:
Iguodala and Kapono to Clips
Camby, Thornton, STel, Novak and Skinner to 76ers.

Lets ditch Skinner, Novak is replaced by a bettwe Kapono, Camby is done at the end of the year, and Thornton is replaced by a better Igoudala. Had to throw in Telfair to get the money to work out…

Starters:
Kaman, Griffin, Igoudala, Gordon, BD
Dj, Smith, Kapono, Butler, and Brown/Collins off the bench.
- SilverClip
  
  Two problems.
  
  1. Skinner’s contract is trade restricted. He might still agree to it, but I bet he wants to stay in LA, being home and all. Novak is restricted in the same way. Next in line: DJ.
  
  2. Philly won’t do it. They don’t want to trade Iggy unless they get talent (AT and DJ, maybe) and more cap relief (Dalembert instead of Kapono).
- rmb
  
  Best trade poposal made on this board so far. Skinner can still play but not with Clips.
  Novak must go.
http://www.firedunleavy.com FireDunleavy .com

Trade deadline is getting close. Dunleavy better get something for Camby. I think some of those top free agents will take less than a max deal if they can win. Endorsements from playing in LA for a playoff team will make up for a little salary difference.
- MannyA
  
  Do you honestly belive any free agents out there will thinking about coming to the Clippers because they want to win? We are gonna get a free agent because we offer the most money, hopefully we don’t end up overpaying for one that isn’t worth it.
Robert Lehrer

Why all this talk about Iggy? Yes, he can play some SF but he’s a SG. He weights a little over 200 lbs and is 6’6″. Last time I looked, the Clips have a talented SG in Eric Gordon.

The Clips need outside shooting and D at the 3 position. The only unrestricted big free agent who can provide that is LeBron. I personally think he’s gonna’ stay put in Cleveland.
The other great fit at the 3 for the Clips is RESTRICTED free agent Rudy Gay. I can’t imagine the Grizzlies trading him and it would take an incredible offer by the Clips this summer to pry him loose from Memphis.

Bottom line: I don’t see the Clips making any earth shattering FA signings this summer. So why trade Canby? He’s very talented and the Clips have a chance to resign him next year and we’ll finally see Kaman, Griffin and Canby together in the front court.
- MannyA
  
  This season is over, we have to get something out of Camby’s contract wether it be cap space or talent. We have just as much of a chance to sign Camby next year regardless if he stays or is traded. We can’t waste his contract.
  
  Iggy is 6’6 but dude is strong, has long arms and can jump through the roof. He can play small forward and he is better than anybody we are gonna get.
clippafan4life

We have a scoring problem, trading thornton doesn’t solve that just leaves our bench weaker and more predictable. As is we already have issues with telfair being out and bobby brown not doing much. I’m just not seeing who scores besides rhino off the bench. I mean trading a guy who can give you 10 points off the bench every night for max offer seems kinda dumb, especially when we have a draft pick and plenty of room to snag someone already. Trading players to make room is only good if they don’t contribute much. We moved Zbo for cap space, our main scorer, and that panned out nicely RIGHT? WE HAVE NO OFFENSE
neil

there is a reason other teams want DJ…….they know that they can develope dj and the Clippers couldnt…..Remember O,Neil with Dunleavy……
Newport Clipper

REALLY? Blake and Outlaw??! That’s the best we can do for Camby?

At least get us Jerryd Bayless out of this deal. OUCH.

This is the type of deal Dunleavy comes up with, now that he doesn’t have to focus on his coaching duties? OUCH.
david

We should go after martellwebster he can shoot the 3 and so can blake they both spread the floor for kaman or smith they are both expiring contracts so we rent them for r/ games try it out least we are not stuck with another baron contract lol.
Petey Pablo

Roger Mason is on the trading block from San Antonio.. He shoots lights out from 3 and has good size.. He torched the Clippers last season..
- Clipper Derrick
  
  Isn’t Mason a SG?
Clipped12

Only way I do that Blazers deal is if they add Batum or Fernandez. If they don’t, no thanks. We’d basically be swapping expiring contracts…so what’s the point? Unless, GM Dunleavy is trying to add Thornton and/or Telfair with Camby to get more under the salary cap this summer.
- Q.D.
  
  I’ll take Fernandez
  - bongstradamus
    
    Hes off limits. Portland really loves Rudy.
Brian Tipton

Plenty of teams are trying to get Thomas right about now. The Denver Nuggets and Houston Rockets have reportedly made offers. The Nuggets apparently have recently tried to make trades for DeAndre Jordan(notes), Antonio McDyess(notes), and Ben Wallace(notes) recently but were rebuffed each time.
—From Yahoo

Nuggets looking at DJ….
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