Found Objects: Free Agency Edition

13 Dec 2011

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The Clippers made some big moves yesterday by claiming Chauncey Billups and resigning DeAndre Jordan. We’ll be breaking down Chauncey’s game shortly, but for now check out what everyone else is saying about the moves:

ESPN’s John Hollinger rating the Chauncey Billups pickup (Insider): “Billups is big enough to play off the ball with Williams at times, and with Eric Bledsoe injured for the opening weeks of the season it was crucial for L.A. to get a backup point guard. With this move, the Clips have set themselves up to make a playoff push, even if Chris Paul never comes their way.”

Steve Perrin over at Clips Nation analyzes the Chauncey Billups deal: “The Clippers were very interested in adding Tayshaun Prince to their roster this summer for his playoff experience – now they’ve gotten the team leader from Prince’s Pistons. That’s a big win. Of course, it all depends on Billups attitude about the situation – especially since the Clippers are doing this in large part for Billups’ leadership. They’re counting on Billups’ professionalism, plus the promise of a very talented roster, to bring out the best in him.”
The Chris Paul talks are back on. Not too much of a surprise here, even though the Clippers will say publicly that they’re moving on and ready to go with the roster they have. The fact of the matter is that Stern’s henchmen will have to backdown from demanding the Clippers five best trade assets. At this point, with Billups on board, it doesn’t seem likely the Clippers would forfeit the Minnesota pick and Eric Gordon in trade.
Vinny Del Negro defends the DeAndre Jordan’s new four-year, $43-million dollar contract to Ramona Shelburne of ESPNLA.com: ” ‘The expectations are so high at those type of numbers, but if you really know the game and understand that DeAndre brings a defensive presence for us. Shot-blocking, he runs the court well,’ Del Negro said. ‘He’s very young still, he’s only going to get better. Blake and him play off each other well. He brings you an athletic, big dynamic that we’re fortunate to have.’ “
Maybe the best move the Clippers made yesterday was the one they didn’t. Here’s Sebastian Pruiti taking a look at how Eric Gordon can become a superstar in one of his patented visual breakdowns: “Last year, we saw Gordon take a step in the right direction. He became a very good ball handler and decision-maker when coming off screens, and he became a spot-up shooting threat. However, if he wants to continue to develop, he must learn to play effectively off the ball.”

JaySee

Here’s a 3-team trade with Minnesota for CP3.

Clippers get:
CP3, Ariza, Darko
CP3 and take in 2 bad contracts that fit our team.

Hornets get:
Kaman, Bledsoe, Aminu, Foye, Beasley, Pekovic, Minny pick
Kaman’s expiring contract, 4 young prospects, Top 10 pick, PF and C hole filled.

Wolves get:
Okafor
Foye
A center that can play defense and clearing the log jam in their frontcourt making room for Derrick Williams. An SG on an expiring contract that can shoot and defend.
- JaySee
  
  Oops! Foye goes to the Wolves, not Hornets.
  - griffin
    
    Foye was with the wolves already. He doesn’t want to go back there
    - JaySee
      
      So?
rgc

One thing is clear; until Paul is actually moved somewhere, the Clippers will be involved. The NBA MUST TRADE him. Our front office really WANTS him, and there aren’t many options for them to chose from. I still say he ends up here within the next week or so. The question becomes, for what price? If we can end up acquiring him, without giving up Gordon, by including the Minny pick, it’s a franchise landscape changer…
- AH
  
  Can I just add that I would prefer not to have Aminu in the deal? I realize that Bledsoe>Aminu right now but looking at the roster if we trade for CP3 and I don’t like our SF situation in 2-3 years. Bledsoe would be moot because CP3 would be 29 but our other SFs would be quite old. (And of course this is based on the idea that we do not trade Gordon.) I’d like to keep Aminu (who I hear NOH isn’t crazy about) so if he pans out our starting lineup in 2-3 years is:
  CP3 (29), Gordon (25), Aminu (22), Griffin (25), Jordan (26)
  
  Why keep Aminu and not draft another SF project? If we’re trading Minny pick, BOS essentially owns our pick this year. And subsequent years you’d assume LAC would have low 1st round picks.
clip4life

There are only a few Franchise changing players out there and he is one of them, that being said eric gordon does not need to be part of those talks. We need to keep him and if needed throw something else in.
- joeluis323
  
  CP3 single handedly beat the clips in a game last season. (the second time we played them i think) I was very impressed! Rose did the same. Deffinetly Franchise Changing players!
- Clipped
  
  Send Gordon, Kaman and Brian Cook to Hornets for Paul. Keep minnie pick. I don’t think it’s realistic to sign Gordon next summer and keep both Griffin & Paul. Need to sacrifice something to make this team compete at high level.
DeMote DeAndre

Fool’s Gold.

The Paul trade is a terrible idea. The Hornets worked the Clippers just to get them to the point that they would consider such a disaster. It’d be as disaster even at a lesser package. The Clipper acted like desperate fools overly excited about the chance of a star whose actually willing to come here.

The trade would make the Clippers even smaller in size than they are now, and it’d give away several young low cost players with excellent potential for one max priced six footer with a bad knee, who clearly wasn’t as good last year as he was before.

The Clippers are fooled by the glittering past and the glittering reputation of Paul. Reality is very different. The Clippers have a great potential future in the palm of their hands and they were about to throw it away on the fool’s gold of the Paul trade.

Thank goodness, it didn’t happen
- Bongstradamus
  
  Shouldn’t you be crying over paying DJ 10m a year or something?
  
  Let’s try something different. Besides Harrison Barnes (who hasn’t played a single NBA game) is there any player you actually like?
  
  Let’s focus on the guys you like for awhile.
  - griffin
    
    Yeah where is demote being demote. Aren’t you gonna talk about the dj sign
  - DeMote DeAndre
    
    I like several of the Clippers. They have a good core:
    – Griffin and Gordon, of course.
    – Kaman is probably the best over all center in the West, though with limitations.
    – Butler and Billups will be good for this year.
    – Mo Williams and Jordan are OK in back up roles and should be tradable.
    
    – Then next year, whoever the Minnesota pick brings the Clippers will be a future all star.
    
    – I of course would like to see the Clippers get Howard, and I’d like them to sign one Chris Paul or Deron Williams as a free agent next off season, but I’m more and more thinking all three will stay with their current teams, rather than lose $30 million going to a new one.
    - rgc
      
      Yes they have a good core, but the facts are:
      
      Kaman is as good as gone at some point, for better or worse. We have known this for a year now. Let’s not forget we will net some resources in that deal, that could offset some assets leaving in a CP deal.
      
      Gordon – I don’t want him involved in a CP deal if it can be avoided.
      
      The Minny pick is speculative at best. Maybe it nets a future All-Star; maybe the balls don’t bounce our way and it’s the 12th pick of the draft? All guesswork at this point.
      
      I have no issue using an unknown to acquire the best pure player at his position. You HOPE a pick like the Minny pick turns into a CP.
      
      If we acquire Paul, Bledsoe isn’t a necessary novelty anymore, with Billups on the roster.
      
      Aminu is still 2+ years away from being NBA contributing ready. The Clippers need NBA ready assets NOW.
      - rgc
        
        actually check that Kaman point. He would be involved in the CP deal if it goes through, so no further assets would be added in that case. But either way, kaman is a goner at some point.
DeMote DeAndre

Matching Jordan’s Golden State offer is OK as long as they trade him, probably in March when they’re allowed to trade him. He can still be part of a trade for Howard then, or if Howard is going to stay in Orlando (as he likely will), Jordan can be traded for a #1 in the upcoming draft.

Jordan should come off the bench. He’s OK against other second team centers, but first team centers routinely destroy him. They routinely have one of their best offensive nights of the season against him. It’s really pathetic, and there’s no sensible reason to think that will change. Pretending otherwise is a fool’s pipedream. Starting Jordan at center will be a disaster.

It’s OK to have him as a backup this year. NBA teams need back up centers and most of them aren’t any better than Jordan. That’s the only reason it’s OK to match his offer, and it’s OK as long as the Clippers eventually trade him for something valuable. That’s teh only value Jordan himself actually has . . . as a back up and as tade material for something truly valuable.
- griffin
  
  What if they don’t trade him
  - DeMote DeAndre
    
    They have to trade him. That’s the only thing that makes the signing OK . . . that they now have a trade piece that some people think is good. Centers are hard to come by, even mediocre ones, so they should be able to trade him.
    
    He can’t start. He and Griffin would be one of the worst defensive center/pf combos in the league. Both are smaller than many of their counterparts. Griffin has always had trouble with bigger power fowards and if relatively short Jordan starts next to him, Griffin will have even more trouble. Kaman takes away much of the pressure from Griffin. Jordan will be OK off the bench. Then he can come in and do his limited thing of standing in front of the basket and jumping up in the air and dunking follow-up shots.
    
    If he comes off the bench and doesn’t get traded, then he’s eaten up a huge amount of cap space that will put a long term crimp into the Clipper’s future.
    
    That is when the signing would become a disaster.
DeMote DeAndre

Billups should be a good addition. He certainly makes Mo Williams tradeable.

The Clippers now have two tradable pieces . . . Mo Williams and DeAndre Jordan.

No way should they trade Eric Gordon. No way they should trade the Minnesota pick (which will be a player better in the long term than either Gordon or Paul).

The only way they should trade Kaman is if it’s for Howard. The Clippers could get Dwight Howard for what they were offering for Chris Paul, which is another reason that trade would have been so ridiculous.

The current team is a good team, and the Clippers need to proceed with it, unless they can get Howard in a trade.

Kaman is probably the best center in the Western conference, followed by Marc Gasol and that gimpy headcase Bynum. Kaman likely will have an excellent year if he’s healthy, since it’s a contract year and since he’s got a good team around him so he doesn’t have to try to darry it. He’s a great jump shooter and will spread the floor, opening up space underneath for Griffin to do his thing. He also can defend better than any center in the West, which is going to be a major plus, especially in the playoffs. Kaman will be a huge factor in the Clippers making a run deep into the playoffs this year, and it would be foolishness to trade him for anybody but Howard.
- Olajuwon87
  
  I don’t disagree with you that Kaman is a much better center than DeAndre Jordan but his health has been a constant concern and he showed up to training camp with his conditioning not up to par which is already a bad sign for this rushed season. Furthermore, unless he completely buys into being a fourth option on offense behind Griffin, Gordon and either Billups or Butler he’s not a great fit. He may even have to accept being the 6th man which, from previous accounts, he seemed rather reluctant. The kind of guy the Clippers need is someone like Serge Ibaka who doesn’t need many touches but rebounds, blocks, finishes at the rim and can also shoot a 17-foot jumper. Unfortunately I doubt Thunder will ever let him leave so Clippers will have to do with DeAndre.
  
  Also I disagree with the idea of getting Howard and pairing him with Griffin. There’s a previous case where they teamed up a great PF and C and it wasn’t all that efficient e.g. the 1997 Houston Rockets with Charles Barkley and Hakeem Olajuwon. Just like the current Clippers’ situation they also had a great SG then, Clyde Drexler. Having Barkley and Olajuwon in the paint together actually meant their games overlapped and it left no room for Drexler to penetrate or utilize his own post-up skills. If Howard comes to the Clippers it will be even worse than the ’97 Rockets because at least they were all HOFers and had a decent ranged shot. Griffin and Howard are no way close to being serviceable jump shooters and they would clog up the paint meaning Eric Gordon’s penetration game would take a big hit. I’d rather stay with the current Clippers team and see how they develop but if I had to choose between CP3 or Dwight Howard I’d say CP3 is a much better fit.
  - http://www.barmapla.com FD
    
    With that logic Kaman is a better fit because he can spread the floor. Just don’t let Kaman dribble and it works out great.
DeMote DeAndre

People are wrong when they say New Orleans has to trade Paul. If they don’t trade him, he likely will resign there, The Knicks and Lakers don’t ahve the cap space to sign him. Neither does the Heat. The Nets and Bulls have Williams and Rose. Only the Clippers would be able to sign him, but New Orleans can pay him about $30 million dollars more than the Clippers can. He increases the value of the Hornets for a new owner, so I’m expecting Stern to keep him there for the season.

The best thing for the Clippers to do is to wait until next season and see if Paul really does leave New Orleans. If he does, the Clippers are by far the most likely team to sign him.

Same with Dwight Howard.
- griffin
  
  That’s actually likely but howard is still a question mark becuz he doesn’t know what to do.
- Bongstradamus
  
  Before the trade I’d have screwed NO. After the trades I would definitely screw the NBA Hornets if I were cp3.
- rgc
  
  Chris Paul has given every indication he WON’T re-sign there. Lets assume he’s telling the truth. If they don’t trade him for resources, that team will be left in shambles.
  
  Hypothetically, if he plays the season out there and bails, you don’t think some teams will cut salary in an attempt to get a Chris Paul, aside from the Clippers. Look what the Mavs are doing as recently as today to cut salary for next year. He doesn’t need 20 venerable suitors, he just needs one acceptable one.
  - griffin
    
    If we wanted to keep both gordon and paul which people are saying we can’t becuz gordon will demand more money they are wrong. Randy foye 4 mil contract will be up which can be added to gordons contract. Cook contract will be up as well. And add that to gordons current contract and amnesty mo willaims 9 mil we would be able to keep both. It looks like clips will get cp3 its only a matter of when
    - AH
      
      Thanks for reiterating, griffin. I’m tired of correcting people that cap space is not an issue for anyone. You can include Gomes on the list of expiring contracts (up in 12-13) because if Gordon extends then his qualifying offer (~$5mil) is his salary in 12-13 and then his new salary (probably more than $10mil) goes into effect 13-14.
      
      In fact, everyone just look at this and stop talking about not having cap room.
      
      http://hoopshype.com/salaries/la_clippers.htm
http://Lou Dallas

Mr. Kardashian felt disrespected because the Lakers did not appreciate his efforts. I wonder if he ever felt any respect for the Clippers fans when he left for Miami.
- Bongstradamus
  
  Did DTS match the deal? No. He didn’t feel wanted by us either. (They actually front loaded the deal because he DIDNT want to be here)
  
  Everyone wanted out of this club during those years. Remember? Mo Taylor, Derek Anderson and other guys would write on the sides of their shoes how many games were left before they could become FA’s.
  - griffin
    
    But now look at us one of the hottest teams in the nba is the clippers. Thank you blake griffin and neil olshey becuz without you we true clip fans wouldn’t be happier that FINALLY the clippers get the good peice of the pie and lakers get crust
  - AH
    
    I recall Odom asking Clippers not to match MIA offer sheet when DTS was going to. Am I remembering wrong?
    - Bongstradamus
      
      Thats what I remember as well, on top of Riley front loading the deal to make the first payment obscene to scare off DTS.
Metal Matty

At this point I would offer Gomes and Foye plus a future first rounder not related to the Minny Pick, in exchange for Paul. Just to show we can be just as absurd as they can.
Alexis Valladares

we don’t need cp3!

Billups/Williams/Bledsoe rotation at PG
Gordon/Foye/Leslie
Butler/Aminu/Gomes
Griffin/Cook/Thompkins
Jordan/Kaman
15yrClipperFan

Before I trade for Paul I would see what the Eric Gordon situation will be. They are in talks about an extension. If he signs an extension maybe around 5 years 48 million then you do not trade him. And you offer the Hornets Aminu, Bledsoe, Kaman, Mo Williams, and Minnesota’s pick For Paul and Okafor. The Hornets get youth and expiring contacts and a potential top 5 pick plus they get rid of Okafor’s contract their worst contract by far. The Clippers will get a big man in Okafor that they need more than a Guard in Mo Williams. This is a big financial commitment but I think it is our best chance at keeping Blake and signing him to an extension. Without griffin the team’s revenue and worth will plummet. So you make the commitment and you have depth at every position and the expensive back up big man in Okafor.

If Gordon does not sign the extension then you do a similar trade but slide in Gordon for the Minnesota Pick. I like keeping Gordon much better because you know what type of player and person he is and he fits well on the team. With the Minnesota Pick you hope it will be a top 5 pick but who knows and you hope the player you want is there but who knows.

Even if there is no trade this team is going to be fun to watch and I think can go deep into the playoffs. I love the Billups addition. We went from possible playoff team to top 5 team in the West.

Go Clips
http://www.facebook.com/greydonsquare Greydon Square

I don’t think we should trade Kaman. Sure he may lose his starting job to Jordan, but DJ is block happy, which means he struggles with fouls often. Kaman is a perfect backup who doesn’t conflict with Blake in the paint. Blake has one more option to kick out to who can knock down the shot. This is where we should turn our focus to, depth. Now with Mo and Kaman coming off the bench, you don’t have to worry about chuckers like Foye and Gomes jacking up bad mid/long range shots. Mo AND Kaman would see significant time with the development of Jordan and the age of Billups. Don’t trade either. For once Donald Sterling SPEND this money. You may just buy your self a western conference finals home hosted series.

One last thing, is it really outside the realm of possibilities to resign Kaman to keep the depth up front long term. With Kaman’s injury history as a starter maybe coming off the bench is a better move for his health and longevity as a player. Either way he’s always been one of my favorite Clippers, and I think he should share in the success since he suffered a lot of the tougher seasons prior.

See you all at Staples Center!!!!!

C Jordan/ Kaman
PF Griffin/Ike Diogu/ Cook
SF Butler/Aminu/Gomes
SG Gordon/Foye
PG Billups/Williams/ Bledsoe

I really like this team without gambling on CP3′s knees.

Peace

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Found Objects: Free Agency Edition

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